[EM] Approval style voting could be used in Brexit Vote in Parliament?

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[EM] Approval style voting could be used in Brexit Vote in Parliament?

Gervase Lam-3
Note that (Yes/No) Indicative votes are not legally binding and is
named for the purpose of the vote rather than how the vote should be
done.


https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-47670348

"Alongside the PM's deal, as many as six other options could be voted
on, including:

- revoking Article 50 and cancelling Brexit
- another referendum
- the PM's deal plus a customs union
- the PM's deal plus both a customs union and single market membership
- a Canada-style free trade agreement
- leaving the EU without a deal

It is possible other options which could command reasonable levels of
support might be added to the mix.

At the end all would be voted on simultaneously. MPs would fill out a
ballot paper on each, voting for or against, and the relative support
could then be seen."


https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-47671056

"Ken Clarke - the longest-serving MP in Parliament - has suggested MPs
ranking their preferences to avoid this issue.

Alternatively, MPs could vote on all options at the same time with
every result announced at the end - this would lessen the likelihood of
tactical voting...

...The last time indicative votes were used was in 2003 when MPs were
presented with seven different options on how to reform the House of
Lords."


http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/politics/2721979.stm

"Tony Blair's plans for reforming the House of Lords lie in tatters
after MPs rejected all of the options available to them, ranging from a
fully elected chamber to a fully appointed one.

The prime minister's preference for a fully appointed "revising"
chamber gained the least support while an 80% elected, 20% appointed
Lords was the least disliked option...

...MPs went on to reject every other alternative in a *series* of free
votes."

[I highlighted the word "series"]

Thanks,
Gervase.
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Re: [EM] Approval style voting could be used in Brexit Vote in Parliament?

Gervase Lam-3
Looking a tiny bit further into this, it seems that any such vote is
anticipated to take place this week Wednesday.  However, things can
change on a dime.

Thanks,
Gervase.

On Mon, 2019-03-25 at 14:00 +0000, Gervase Lam wrote:

> Note that (Yes/No) Indicative votes are not legally binding and is
> named for the purpose of the vote rather than how the vote should be
> done.
>
>
> * https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-47670348
>
> "Alongside the PM's deal, as many as six other options could be voted
> on, including:
>
> - revoking Article 50 and cancelling Brexit
> - another referendum
> - the PM's deal plus a customs union
> - the PM's deal plus both a customs union and single market
> membership
> - a Canada-style free trade agreement
> - leaving the EU without a deal
>
> It is possible other options which could command reasonable levels of
> support might be added to the mix.
>
> At the end all would be voted on simultaneously. MPs would fill out a
> ballot paper on each, voting for or against, and the relative support
> could then be seen."
>
>
> * https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-47671056
>
> "Ken Clarke - the longest-serving MP in Parliament - has suggested
> MPs
> ranking their preferences to avoid this issue.
>
> Alternatively, MPs could vote on all options at the same time with
> every result announced at the end - this would lessen the likelihood
> of
> tactical voting...
>
> ...The last time indicative votes were used was in 2003 when MPs were
> presented with seven different options on how to reform the House of
> Lords."
>
>
> * http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/politics/2721979.stm
>
> "Tony Blair's plans for reforming the House of Lords lie in tatters
> after MPs rejected all of the options available to them, ranging from
> a
> fully elected chamber to a fully appointed one.
>
> The prime minister's preference for a fully appointed "revising"
> chamber gained the least support while an 80% elected, 20% appointed
> Lords was the least disliked option...
>
> ...MPs went on to reject every other alternative in a *series* of
> free
> votes."
>
> [I highlighted the word "series"]
>
> Thanks,
> Gervase.
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Re: [EM] Approval style voting could be used in Brexit Vote in Parliament?

Gervase Lam-3
As can been seen from the results below, no option won a majority of
votes.  There is planned to be a second round consisting of rank voting
(probably counted using IRV) of the "least defeated" options on Monday,
but whether this occurs depends on the vote on Friday on the current EU
deal.

I have also included two links that show graphical breakdowns of how
each group/party voted, which obviously includes voting against party
lines.  The second link shows all of the vote breakdowns but the first
link is probably clearer on selected results.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-47728333
https://news.sky.com/story/how-your-mp-voted-on-alternative-brexit-plan
s-11676893

For/Against/NoVoteRecorded

No deal: 160/400/79
Norway + model: 188/283/168
Norway without customs union: 65/377/197
Leave with a UK customs union: 264/272/103
Labour Party alternative: 237/307/95
Revoke Article 50: 184/293/162
Second referendum: 268/295/76
Seek "standstill" with EU if no deal: 139/422/78

Thanks,
Gervase.
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Re: [EM] Approval style voting could be used in Brexit Vote in Parliament?

robert bristow-johnson



---------------------------- Original Message ----------------------------
Subject: Re: [EM] Approval style voting could be used in Brexit Vote in Parliament?
From: "Gervase Lam" <[hidden email]>
Date: Thu, March 28, 2019 5:13 pm
To: [hidden email]
--------------------------------------------------------------------------

> As can been seen from the results below, no option won a majority of
> votes.

but the Brexit crash is the default.   that's the "No-deal Exit on 12 April".  even without a majority vote, that will happen if no other action is legislated by Parliament.

>  There is planned to be a second round consisting of rank voting
> (probably counted using IRV) of the "least defeated" options on Monday,
> but whether this occurs depends on the vote on Friday on the current EU
> deal.
 

so that "No-deal Exit on 12 April", and every other option (but "Do Nothing" is not an option, "Do Nothing" is equivalent to "No-deal Exit on 12 April") should be put to a ranked ballot and decided in a Condorcet-compliant manner and if there is a CW, then that would be the least-defeated option.

but, really, this whole Brexit thing is enormously stupid, myopic, and harmful.  almost as bad as the Americans and Trumpism.


--

r b-j                         [hidden email]

"Imagination is more important than knowledge."
 

 

 

 


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Re: [EM] Approval style voting could be used in Brexit Vote in Parliament?

Gervase Lam-3
In reply to this post by Gervase Lam-3
On Fri, 2019-03-29 at 00:13 +0000, Gervase Lam wrote:
> There is planned to be a second round consisting of rank
> voting
> (probably counted using IRV) of the "least defeated" options on
> Monday,
> but whether this occurs depends on the vote on Friday on the current
> EU
> deal.

Just to say that I heard very briefly on a TV report that the "options"
(whatever they may be) will voted on in a series of votes, which is
more like the traditional way Parliament does votes.  This indicates
maybe that it won't be Approval style or any form of rank voting?  I
suppose we'll all see what transpires this coming Monday and possibly
Wednesday.

Also, I heard a 4 minute interview with a professor relating to the
actual voting process, with the interviewee "name checking" that the
options went through Approval Voting, though it could be argued this is
not strictly true considering that the voting also included No votes
and Abstentions.

The interview also mentions rank voting the options (excluding the
fresh referendum option which he said was so different from the other
options), for which he more or less acknowledged that there are
differing rank voting methods with their pros and cons.  For the sake
of the audience, he wisely avoided naming and describing the ranking
methods.

A link to the interview is below and is available for about the next 27
days. The interview starts at the 35 minute mark.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sounds/play/m0003jrh

Thanks,
Gervase.
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